The State of the Medical Evidence in the JFK Assassination
Doug Horne's presentation at JFK Lancer 1998 Conference
©1999 Joseph BackesAuthor's note - It is very helpful and I would say crucial to have the medical material released by the ARRB in July 1998 to help you understand Doug Horne's presentation. The entire set and the Doug Horne memos are available from History-Matters and the Mary Ferrell Foundation (link to Medical exhibits) (Testimony).
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Autopsy photos are numbered according to their listing in the book "Best Evidence."THE MAN WHO GOT THINGS DONE:
In my opinion, there was one real reason to go to the 1998 JFK Lancer conference: Doug Horne. This man is a hero. I knew Horne briefly as he and I, and another researcher, stayed up all night one night at an A.S.K. conference in 1993 when we thought President Clinton might show up. We knew an invitation was sent, and initially accepted, but, it turned out the Kennedy family requested Clinton not attend and he honored that request, though we did not know that at the time.Horne's work with the Board is substantial with regard to the medical and military records the ARRB sought and acquired. (Cuba and Vietnam documents that possibly would not have been released otherwise.) Horne gave up a damn nice job in Honolulu, Hawaii to work in Washington DC for the ARRB. He had a federal civilian post after serving in the Navy. That was a big sacrifice. It is through his dedication and perseverance that the ARRB did the things the research community are most happy about, specifically, the apparent breakthrough with the medical evidence.
David Lifton introduced Horne to the conference audience as he prepared to present a long list of materials he had brought. Lifton told how Horne met David Marwell, the ARRB's first Executive Director in 1994 when they were hiring staff.
Lifton explained how Horne had been in the Navy for 20 years, 10 as a surface warfare officer on ships around the world, then he served 10 additional years in the Navy as a federal civil servant. Horne saw the benefit of using Lifton's interviews of many of the medical personnel in the case as a basis for further questioning, and fortunately so did the ARRB, and when the Board held a meeting in the Los Angeles area, Lifton donated much of his primary source material to the National Archives. Lifton and Horne corresponded and kept up a friendship throughout the life of the ARRB. This resulted in Lifton hearing a number of war stories on the inner workings of the Board as they were happening.Due to his feelings about the Board's responsibilities, Horne was highly critical of the Board's chief counsel and second executive director, T. Jeremy Gunn, and his criticism was one reason Gunn did not speak at the Lancer Awards Banquet where Gunn was supposed to be a guest of honor.
It should be stressed that Horne prepared the questions for the depositions taken of Drs. Humes, Boswell, and Finck. There was only Horne and Jeremy Gunn in the room when the depositions were taken. These depositions were taken separately, a day at a time, one doctor at a time. The same process was used with X-ray technicians Custer and Reed, photographer of record Stringer, and his assistant Riebe.
During the course of this work Horne made a discovery, later covered by the "Washington Post" writer, George Lardner, about there being two different brain examinations on two different brains. Horne wrote a 32 page memo on this which is available now at the National Archives and was at the Conference.*
Horne was also extremely involved with the Zapruder film area. Horne was the ARRB liaison person to Roland Zavada, a retired KODAK movie camera expert who was asked to make a report on the version of the film now in the National Archives. Horne was also in touch with Jamie Silverberg, the lawyer for the Zapruder family. Because of these responsibilities, Horne was present when the film was rephotographed for the MPI-LMH documentary.
As the ARRB's Military expert, Horne was involved with getting the Pentagon to declassify records on Vietnam and Cuba, records which will rewrite history on the Cuban Missile Crises, the anti-Castro plots, and the escalation of the war in Vietnam.And, Horne was all over the IRS area with Oswald's tax records. The IRS - Oswald problem was brought to the attention of the ARRB by the work of researchers John Armstrong and Carol Hewitt, and they (the Board) gave this assignment to Horne.
Lifton put it quite simply and most eloquently: "In the areas where Horne worked things got done."
THE DIFFERENCES IN THE WOUNDS, PARKLAND VS BETHESDA:
Horne began his presentation by showing overhead transparencies of the human skull and the components of the brain, etc. (The material Horne used is in the ARRB medical material released July 31st, also available from Lancer. Get it!)
He stressed to the audience that where the temporal bone wraps around and meets the occipital bone --behind the right ear-- is most important. (See MD 72 and 73)
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| MD 71 | MD 72 | MD 73 |
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Horne then showed an interior lateral view showing the cerebellum and cerebrum. (See MD 71) He showed a plastic brain with the cerebellum in red, then a plastic skull with the occipital in red, the right parietal bone in blue-grey, and the temporal bone in pink, making it easier for the audience to follow along. Horne pointed out where the ear canal is -- which the temporal bone is both in front of and behind, wrapping around and meeting the occipital bone at the lamboid suture.
Horne said he was going to talk about Parkland observations, Warren Commission conclusions, House Committee conclusions, and how to account for the differences, and where to go with the data. For Horne, the rumors of the death of the body alteration hypothesis are greatly exaggerated.
Horne then read excerpts from the HSCA volume 7:
"The various accounts of the nature of the wounds to the President differ significantly. Critics of the Warren Commission's medical evidence findings have found on the observations recorded by the Parkland hospital doctors, (that doesn't make sense but that's what they wrote,) they believe it is unlikely that trained medical personnel could be so consistently in error regarding the nature of the wounds even though their recollections were not based on careful examinations of the wounds."Horne pointed out the following as being important:"In disagreement with the observations of the Parkland doctors are the 26 people present at the autopsy, all of those interviewed who attended the autopsy corroborated the general location of the wounds as depicted in the photographs. None had differing accounts."
Horne mentioned he attended COPA `94 wherein Dr. Gary Aguilar gave a fine presentation about this statement and how this claim from the HSCA is totally false! Dr. Aguilar found that the HSCA buried their own interviews with Bethesda medical personnel that contradict this statement. Doug then showed the diagrams that accompanied the HSCA interviews of these Bethesda personnel, diagrams drawn by those being interviewed. FBI agent James Sibert (MD85), FBI agent Francis X. O'Neill (MD86), and Richard Lipsey (MD87) were in the autopsy room and saw JFK's corpse and the nature of his wounds. All drew diagrams and gave interviews contradicting that statement in the HSCA's final report. Their reports contradict the nature of the wounds in the "official" autopsy X-rays and photographs.
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Examples of drawings made for the HSCA investigators by
witnesses to JFK's body
MD 85 - FBI Agent James Sibert 1
Sibert 2
MD 86 - FBI Agent Francis X. O'Neill 1
O'Neill 2-
MD 87 - Richard Lipsey.
There are several others who were in the Bethesda autopsy room that night who also gave reports, with diagrams that clearly contradict the "official" autopsy X-rays and photographs and that HSCA statement.
[Small aside - Lipsey was an aide to General Wehle, Commanding General of the Military District of Washington. According to Lipsey, Lipsey and Wehle flew by helicopter from Andrews Air Force base to Bethesda with JFK's body. At least that's my reading of what he's saying.]Here's the relevant passage, from MD 87:
"Lipsey mentioned that he and Wehle then flew by helicopter to Bethesda and took JFK into the back of Bethesda."
Lipsey is mentioned in "Best Evidence" on page 418-419. Lifton interviewed Lipsey, who stated that JFK was in a decoy ambulance at the back of the Andrews to Bethesda motorcade. So, maybe JFK went that way and Lipsey and Wehle met up with JFK's body at the back of Bethesda. Lifton discovered that the helicopter carrying Lipsey and Wehle arrives at Bethesda at 7:14 p.m. This would vindicate Lifton's long held view that the casket we see being off- loaded from Air Force One at Andrews Air Force base is indeed empty and explain how JFK's body got to Bethesda. (MD 87 is also RIF#180-10105-10405, HSCA file number 014469.) Lipsey drew an entrance wound low in the back of the skull and one high on the back. Tom Robinson of Gawler's Funeral Home also drew a diagram which contradicted the autopsy photographs and X-rays.(MD88)
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| MD 88 Tom Robinson drawings 6/21/96 | |
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What is really interesting is now everyone who could have written the HSCA's statement is disavowing writing it and wondering how it got into the report. The ARRB staff met with Andrew Purdy, former HSCA staffer, in January, 1996 the month before the ARRB deposed Dr. Humes. Purdy was already aware of this controversy because he was a guest at COPA '94 and so was prepared for it. He told the ARRB the same thing he said at COPA '94: that he did not write it and he does not know who did. Since that time Dr. Aguilar spoke with G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel of the HSCA, who told Aguilar he doesn't know who wrote it either. Dick Billings and Gary Cornwell also say they did not write it and they don't know who did. Horne said he is confident one of them is wrong about not writing it or not knowing who did because the three who stayed on to write the report are Blakey, Billings and Cornwall. Purdy said the rest of the HSCA staff was let go by the end of December 1978.
Horne then played an audiotape of Purdy saying,"I think the wording of our report is wrong where we say that all of the Bethesda personnel agree with all of the Parkland personnel in terms of the nature and location of the wounds."
[Purdy is confused. Purdy is disagreeing with the statement that all the Bethesda personnel who were interviewed by the HSCA agree with the location of the wounds as seen in the autopsy photographs and X-rays. However, he gets confused and talks of the HSCA report being wrong in regards to saying the Parkland doctors and Bethesda doctors agree on the locations of the wounds. We are not talking about Parkland. He meant to say the HSCA report is wrong where the Bethesda personnel (and only the Bethesda personnel) all agree on the nature of the wounds as seen in the autopsy photographs and X-rays. The great lie is that everything adds up at Bethesda, that everyone is in agreement as to size and location of JFK's wounds, that the autopsy photographs and X-rays confirm the Bethesda descriptions, as does the brain. This is then used to contradict the Parkland medical personnel and their descriptions, therefore all the Parkland medical personnel are wrong about the size and location of the president's wounds.]
Purdy again:
"And then to seal up our interview reports, it's just, I mean it's just inexcusable. Our interview reports should have been part of our evidence, I assumed they would have been." [There is more. This was an audiotape interview done by the ARRB where Thomas Samoluk questions Purdy.]
Horne then showed the Harper fragment photo.(MD16) On Saturday November 23, 1963 a fragment of bone was found in Dealey Plaza on the South side of Elm St. in the grass by a medical student, Billy Harper, who gave it to his uncle Jack Harper, who then gave it to a Dr. Cairns, Chief of Pathology at Methodist Hospital near Dallas, Texas.
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Harper fragment Horne then read from the HSCA interview report (MD19) with Dr. Harper and with Dr. Cairns. [Point of clarification the "I" here, as in "I spoke..." is the HSCA's Andrew Purdy, not the ARRB's Horne.]
"Dr. Harper said the consensus of the doctors who viewed the skull fragment was that it was part of the occipital region. Dr. Harper said he retained a photo of this skull fragment for about a year at which time the FBI took it from him. I spoke with Dr. Cairns regarding his recollections of examining this skull fragment. Dr. Cairns said the piece of skull fragment came from an area approximately two and a half to three inches above the spine area. He said it had the markings of a piece of skull from the lower occipital area, specifically, suture and inner markings where blood vessels run around the base of the skull. This fragment is believed to have been delivered to Dr. Burkley on November 27th, 1963 at the White House and has since disappeared."
Horne then mentioned the statements made by the 8 attending Parkland doctors who made notes, only four described the location of a head wound. Those people were Drs. Clark, Perry (MD57), Baxter (MD97), and Jenkins (MD96). Of these four, three described damage to the cerebellum. It was visible extruding from the open wound.In addition to his own notes Dr. Kemp Clark also prepared a typewritten consensus product the weekend of the assassination, an overview of the events in Trauma Room One (MD37).
"There is a large wound in the right occipital - parietal region, there is considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebrum and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound."Dr. Clark was the head of neurosurgery at Parkland. He did examine President Kennedy's wounds up close and was the doctor who pronounced him dead. Drs. Clark and McClelland were at the head of the gurney and had the best view of President Kennedy's head wound. Both testified to the Warren Commission.
Dr. Clark -
"I then examined the wounds in the back of President's head. This is a large gaping wound in the right posterior part with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed."Dr. McClelland
"As I took the position at the head of the table that I have already described to help out with the tracheotomy I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted. It had been shattered apparently by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp. It seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a way that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out."(MD 38)In February of 1997 Marwell authorized Gunn and Horne to go to Texas and conduct unsworn interviews of three people from Parkland Hospital that had been missed by both the Warren Commission and the HSCA. Those people were Nurse Audrey Bell (MD184), Dr. Charles Crenshaw (MD183) and Dr. Robert Grossman (MD185). These interviews were audio recorded and are now in the National Archives. Horne showed the markings these three people made on diagrams of the skull and then read selections from the audio tapes.
Crenshaw stated he saw only one head wound, not two. The wound was behind the right ear in the occipital-parietal region in the right rear quadrant of the head and was baseball sized. Brain matter was extruding, He feels he definitely saw cerebellum extruding from the wound. There was a complete absence of bone, hair and scalp at the wound site. There was a large blood clot high in the left forehead above the left eye. He observed what he interpreted as a classic bullet entrance wound in the anterior neck the size of the tip of one's little finger just prior to the performance of the tracheotomy by Dr. Perry.
MD183-Crenshaw 2 MD183-Crenshaw 3 MD183-Crenshaw 4 Dr. Crenshaw's markings at ARRB deposition 3/19/97 Horne pointed out that Crenshaw observed no damage to the right side of the head above the ear or forward of the ear, nor did he observe any damage to the top of the head. This will be very important as we read on.
Horne read selections from Audrey Bell's ARRB interview. Although in Trauma Room One for only 3 to 5 minutes she did see the head wound. She asked Dr. Perry, "Where is the wound?" Dr. Perry turned the head only slightly to the president's anatomical left so that she could see a right rear posterior head wound which she described as occipital. She said that the right side and top of the head were intact which is why she asked where the wound was in the first place.
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| Parkland Hospital Nurse Audrey Bell's Markings at ARRB deposition | |
Dr. Robert Grossman was an assistant to Dr. Clark, standing behind him the whole time. Horne thought it was important to note where he places wounds rather than Grossman's interpretation of them. He drew a hole in the back of the head which he interpreted as an entry wound in the same area where Crenshaw and Bell drew a wound. Horne thought Grossman might be calling it an entrance wound because he may believe the Warren Commission's conclusions.
Horne showed another diagram where Grossman drew a hole, but there was actually no hole, but a piece of parietal bone. (See Grossman #2) It almost looked undamaged, covered with hair,and was slightly lifted up from the inside. Only when Dr. Clark lifted it up by the hair could you see it was a damaged piece of bone -- it was not a hole. Grossman interpreted that area as the exit." (Could this be what we see in Lifton's "B.E." as "autopsy photo #4?)
MD185 Grossman 2 MD185 Grossman 3 MD185 Grossman 4 Dr. Robert Grossman ARRB markings 3-21-97 Grossman said that he and Dr. Clark, together, lifted President Kennedy's head so as to be able to observe the damage. It was his impression in Trauma Room One that no one else even knew there was a head wound until the head was lifted up a bit by Clark. Horne stated that Grossman was making the point that the wound was not enormous, that you really had to lift up the head to see this wound. He said he observed two wounds to President Kennedy's head. One was a circular puncture in the occipital region and one was a plate of bone in the parietal region. He believes the bullet entered through the tentorium, which is the membrane surrounding the cerebellum, and went through the right hemisphere of the cerebellum before passing through the right cerebral hemisphere index and through the right parietal bone. Repeatedly during the interview Dr. Grossman asked the ARRB staffers to interview Dr. Kemp Clark. He felt that Dr. Clark's observations would be more accurate than his.
Then Horne read from the ARRB depositions taken of five Parkland medical physicians taken in August this year ('98). Those interviewed were Drs. Baxter, Jones, McClelland, Perry and Peters.
Dr. Jones:
"I was on his left side below the left arm looking to my right. I could easily see the neck wound. I could not see in much detail the posterior wound but did not see any flap of skull or anything laying out to the right side."Horne said that those of you familiar with the autopsy photographs might find that interesting.
Dr. Jones:
"At one point after we had completed the insertion of the chest tubes, IV, and traecheostomy, I looked up over the top of the president's head and from that view was all that I saw, but with him flat on the table could not appreciate the size of that wound but did not see a lot of skull or brain tissue on the table, some maybe but not a tremendous amount. And certainly did not see a flap turned on the right side."So, this is another observation inconsistent with the autopsy photographs and X-rays.
Dr. McClelland:"This wound looked pretty much like everybody else has described it here. It was a very large wound and I would agree that it was at least 7 or 8 centimeters in diameter and was mostly really in the occipital part of the skull. And as I was looking at it a fairly large portion of the cerebellum fell out. There was already some brain there but during the traecheostomy more fell out and that was clearly cerebellum. I mean there was no doubt about it and I was that far from him. (indicating)"
Gunn: "When you say that far, you are putting your hands about 12 inches apart?"
Dr. McClelland: "12 to 18 inches."
Mr. Gunn: "Well, about how long were you at the head of the table?'
Dr. McClelland: "Oh, until they finished up the traecheostomy. I don't know exactly how long that would be but I guess you know it would have to be an absolute minimum of 5 minutes, and probably somewhere between 5 and 10, but that is just a rough guess. But it was certainly more than just a, you know, transient view of it, it was a concentrated view."
Dr. Peters: "And so at that point I did step around Dr. Baxter and looked in the President's head and I reported to the Warren Commission that there is about a 7 centimeter hole in the occipital-parietal area, that there was obviously quite a bit of brain missing. Some brain was hanging down in the wound and I thought the cerebellum had been injured as well as the cerebral cortex. That's what I said at the time."
Mr. Gunn: "Dr. Peters? There is something that you said that you wanted to talk about."
Dr. Peters: "Well it was concerning the injury to the cerebellum. I felt that at that time when I looked at his skull after Dr. Jenkins said boys you better come up here and take a look at this brain before you do anything as heroic as opening the chest and massaging the heart directly and I thought the cerebellum was injured and of course it was obvious there was quite a bit of the cerebral cortex missing. And I looked at it for a moment and so when I was interviewed a few days later by Mr. Specter, I said I thought the cerebellum was injured."
Later in the deposition Dr. Peters stated:
"I think that pretty much corresponds to what I said, (Horne explained, okay these people are now discussing the McClelland drawing in Josiah Thompson's book) "occipitoparietal. It looks a little further down in the occiput in this picture, I think, but it was pretty far posteriorly because you had to be able to see the cerebellum." (see drawing below)
Dr. McClelland: "Yeah, yeah, I agree Paul. I think that this is a little bit below or it doesn't indicate that there was still a -- you know, maybe a shelf of bone left below that."
Dr. Peters: "Yeah."
Dr. McClelland:" But not much of one, and that did allow me to look down into the -- see the inside of the skull"
Dr. Peters: "Right, I agree with you."
Dr. McClelland: "Just like, you know, just like it would be if you took a skull like you may have as you see here and there was nothing in it. I mean not down in that part. There was no tentorium." (Remember, the tentorium is the membrane that surrounds the cerebellum.)
Dr. McClelland: "There was a hole there and so my explanation of what was happening is there's this hand up in the wound and they sort of pulled it up for some reason."
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| Drawing by Dr. McClellend | Bethesda Autopsy photo -color |
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Horne explains that what Dr. McClelland is referring to here is the famous back of the head autopsy photo. (Seen in "Best Evidence" as autopsy Photo #4 Carroll and Graff edition 1988. This is one of the Fox B&W photos.) This photo appears to show an intact posterior skull. The photograph does not change his recollections. There is still a hole. There is still missing bone. And somebody is pulling up scalp.
Dr. Peters:
"Well, I would certainly agree with what Bob said. It was my thought exactly that they just kind of pulled that flap back into place and took a picture so they could show how it looked with things restored as much as possible and it just -- a flap just kind of -- had been torn back and now they were just kind of putting it back and snapping a picture. For what reason I don't know. But I'm certain there was a hole there too. I walked around right and looked in his head. You could look directly into the cranial vault and see the cerebral injury to the cerebral cortex and I thought at the time to the cerebellum. So I know the hole was big enough to look into. I estimated it at 7 centimeters at that time."
Horne explains that what Dr. McClelland is referring to here is the famous back-of-the-head autopsy photo. (Seen in "Best Evidence" as autopsy Photo #4 Carroll and Graff edition 1988. This is one of the Fox B&W photos.) This photo appears to show an intact posterior skull. The photograph does not change his recollections. There is still a hole. There is still missing bone. And somebody is pulling up scalp.
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Horne then showed the frame from a film of Malcolm Kilduff pointing to his head saying "Dr. Burkley told me it was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head," and he put his finger at his right temple. We don't know if Burkley told Kilduff that there was a wound to the right temple or if Dr. Burkley made that kind of a gesture. It is certainly provocative.
Kilduff at Press Conference 11/22/63 Horne then showed the notes of Seth Kantor as seen in Josiah Thompson's book "Six Seconds in Dallas," reading: "entered right temple." We don't know if this is an observation he made himself, or if this is a recording that someone told him, or if he writes this down after seeing Malcolm Kilduff. But this too is provocative.
Seth Kantor's notes from Parkland Hospital 11/22/63 Horne commented that if what we are seeing is true then we don't need any "jet effect" to describe what we are seeing. This would be the result of a shot from the front and the debris trail hits the two motorcycle policemen, and litters the back of the limousine.
Horne then commented upon White House press conference transcript 1327-C, the first press conference of the Johnson White House. This is of Drs. Clark and Perry talking at Parkland immediately after Kilduff spoke. This is the only record of this press conference as all film and audio of it were taken, I believe, by the Secret Service, and all have since disappeared. Three times Dr. Perry describes the throat wound as being one of entry in the anterior neck.
Q: "Where was the entrance wound?"
Dr. Perry: "There was an entrance wound in the neck."Q: "Which way was the bullet coming on the neck wound, at him?"
Dr. Perry: "It appeared to be coming at him."Q:"Doctor, describe the entrance wound, do you think from the front, in the throat?"
Dr. Perry: "The wound appeared to be an entrance wound in the throat, yes, that is correct."And for those who think the Parkland physicians didn't have enough time to examine the wounds because they were treating the President, there was a question to Dr. Clark.
Q:"Doctor can you tell us how long after he arrived on the Emergency table before he expired? In other words, how long was he living while in the hospital?"
Dr. Clark: "40 minutes, perhaps."
Dr. Perry: "I was far too busy to tell. I didn't even look at the watch."
Dr. Clark: "I would guess about 40 minutes."And then later in the transcript Dr. Clark admits they just backdated the time of death to 1300. This means the president arrived at about 12:38 and they worked on him until about 1:18 p.m. Horne won't hear of those who claim these doctors didn't have enough time to examine the wounds. They certainly did.
And don't forget Dr. Humes called Dr. Perry on November 23rd. Perry told Humes about a wound to the anterior neck, 3 to 5 millimeters in diameter in the neck.
Continued on page two: THE WOUNDS AT BETHESDAPart One
FROM JFK LANCER: Debra Conway, Tom Jones, and George Michael Evica, the 1998 Conference Chair, thank both Doug Horne and Joe Backes for making this extremely important research available. Please send the address of this article to everyone and help us pass on the information. Thanks.
Links to more information on the medical evidence:
November 10, 1998 Archive Photos Not of JFK's Brain, Says Assassinations Board Report Staff Member; Concludes 2 Different Specimens Were Examined, Article from the "Washington Post"
Thanks to John Kelin at "Fair Play" for the graphic scans.
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